Rabbi Mayer Twersky holds the Leib Merkin Distinguished Professional Life Styles: The Torah's Position on Homosexuality; Malchiyos During the Aseres. Rav Mayer Twersky: Audio. The Place of Hard Absolute Truth and Alternate Life Styles: The Torah's Position on Homosexuality () · Malchiyos During the. In a lecture at YU on December 28, Rabbi Mayer Twersky sharply debate over homosexuality at YU, which has grappled with whether to.
28, Rabbi Mayer Twersky acknowledged that the event's organizers center of an ongoing struggle over homosexuality in Orthodox Judaism. Rav Mayer Twersky: Audio. The Place of Hard Absolute Truth and Alternate Life Styles: The Torah's Position on Homosexuality () · Malchiyos During the. Rabbi Mayer Twersky holds the Leib Merkin Distinguished Professional Life Styles: The Torah's Position on Homosexuality; Malchiyos During the Aseres.
R' Mayer Twersky's Response to 'Being Gay in the Orthodox World' Ok, but the Posuk is describing behavior – homosexual behavior. In a lecture at YU on December 28, Rabbi Mayer Twersky sharply debate over homosexuality at YU, which has grappled with whether to. Rabbi Mayer Twersky holds the Leib Merkin Distinguished Professional Life Styles: The Torah's Position on Homosexuality; Malchiyos During the Aseres.
One, homosexuals are wired that way, something that is hopelessly irreversible, they are wired that way. Proposition number two of which there is a big debate in the mental health community, although homosexualtiy only hears one side of that debate on the street proposition number two mayrr in addition to homosexualit hopelessly wired that way, this represents a unique, sui generous, herculean, heroic twersky to conform to what to the Torah says, V'Es Zachar Lo Sishkav Mishkevei Ishah To'evah Hee.
Whether there are other struggles that are just as difficult? R'MT seems to accept the hard wiring proposition. I can understand a meta argument that in our generation we need to draw a line in public, but i certainly don't understand the apparent "slam dunk" nature of the view expressed. I don't think they'll be providing that answer.
It seems that, based on their shitah that such issues - and certainly how an mayer struggling with such issues should channel those inclinations - should be dealt with in private homosexuality consultation with their closest friends, family and rabbeim, they will not answer that question in public though I agree with you and think they should, so as to provide an appropriate formula of how to address it, presuming that last Tuesday night's even was inappropriate.
Excellent analogy. Twersky is like Moses, who killed the idol worshipers in the name of God. Just one thing I don't get. Why use an analogy that's so old? Why not go for something a little more recent. You could have used the nine eleven hijackers. Chana, I seem to recall that as a high school or earlier student, homosexality did not appreciate being told to "stay in the closet" with your questions regarding hashkafa etc.
KT Joel Rich. Anonymous KT - as someone who was at the schmooze - R' Twersky does not accept the hard-wired idea - he was stating these propositions as the things that people believe and are objectionable.
I twerskt one thing that hasn't been hoomsexuality thus twersky is that R' Twersky's argument seems to be a very poor one, on logical and factual grounds. Have adulterers been the subjects of hate crimes? Have adulterers been killed for the way they were born? What is the suicide rate amongst these adulterers? Is the suicide rate higher among adulterers, such that there is value in extending open arms, in public, to them? Gay Americans have been killed because of the way they're wired, and there is a higher rate of depression and suicide among gay teens than adultering men.
The need for a forum comes from the problem of tortured young men and women who feel like their life is over before it's even started. He writes, "There is a Yiddish saying — a descriptive statement — the way it goes with the non-Jews it goes with the Jews. But this is odd, because the Jewish community has done a fine job keeping kashrus, negiah, tzedakah and many other specifically Jewish laws despite the fact that it goes beyond American law.
To blame this on American law seems to be a cop out, and a completely separate issue. Further, it's very interesting what R' Twersky thinks about the current state of psychology homosecuality homosexuality, but it would be far more interesting to see what those who study the psychology of homosexuality have to say about it. And it would help his case if he had cited any evidence, instead of vague reference to "a big debate in the mental health community. Why is the idea that halacha can be so hard, sometimes, that it requires heroic courage, so dangerous?
All it brings is respect, not a respect for aveirah but a respect for the sinners, and that's OK. A respect for sinners is what I homosexuslity taught regarding those who failed to die al pi kiddush Hashem, and I don't see why that's any less mxyer than those who fail to live up to the prohibition against homosexuality.
Regarding the first point, that toevah is a shocking word: it's not that shocking, actually. The gemara tells us what it means, and the rishonim tell us what the gemara means. In Nedarim twersky it says that toevah means "Toeh ata bah" in mayer context, and the Ran and Rashi both say that it's because a man who lies with another man it leaving behind sex with a woman and instead having sex with a man.
That's all it means in this context according to the gemara in Nedarim--nothing shocking, just describing the act. Regarding the first comment, I believe when R Twersky said "of which there is a big debate in the mental health community, although one only hears one side of that debate on the street" that is in reference to Proposition Number 1 I think after saying "Proposition Number 2" he went back to add an addendum to Proposition Number 1, hence why after this quote he repeated the line "Proposition Number 2" If I am correct, he was saying that the degree of hard-wiredness, or the irreversible nature of homosexuality is homosexuality as one sided as it is often presented to be.
I don't know whether homosexuality is "hard-wired" or even what that would mean in a scientific sense. But I do know that despite decades of research, there remains nothing in the way of mayer treatment for someone who is Twersky and wants not to be. I think that this is the single biggest hashkafic challenge facing traditional Judaism. I'm very glad HaShem twerwky mayer straight. The Rabbis missed the point. The point of the forum was to educate Orthodox Jews that Homosexuality was qualitatively and substantially different from coveting your neighbor wife.
How stupid an analogy is that? Support groups for wanna be adulterers? There is almost no point in continuing to read or twersky what these Rabbis have to say about the issue when they can so simply negate the very nature of my being and erase any potential for happiness and acceptance.
Shame shame on them. It's strange. The first phrase that came to mind after reading this is, "Moral Relativism. He says that the mere act of calling people "wired that way" creates an attitude that is accommodating to To'evah. Thus, he strongly implies that we shouldn't say that or present it as an accepted point of view. It doesn't homosexualuty to him whether it is true or not. It only matters that, if it uomosexuality true, he can't think of an appropriate halachic response therefore we shouldn't talk about it.
While it might be obvious where my sympathies lie, the issue really isn't whether people who are gay are twersky aren't "wired that way. The comparison of decades twersyk research on homosexuality saying people are "wired that way" to a lustful individual saying he's "wired that way" is trivializing and beneath such a scholar.
His entreaty to not talk about the category of "gay Jews" is simple homophobia. In this twersky, I'm using the literal meaning of phobia as fear, not hatred. There are categories of Jews. There are male jews, female jews, married jews, jewish children, jews struggling with addiction, jews with schizophrenia, etc. There are homosexuality. There were also always gay Jews.
They might not have been as public. More might have left Judaism or commit suicide in the past, but they always existed. The fear to accept that such a category exist is the mayer that he doesn't know how to interact with that category.
It has nothing to do with what may or may not be reality. Isn't there a Talmudic story about someone declaring non-kosher chicken kosher in order to aid a poor widow? Isn't there some ruling or another about annulling a halacha if no one follows the ruling? I even remember something about siding with Hillel over Shammai, too.
And didn't Rashi overthrow a lot of laws that made daily life miserable for Jews? Vague memories. My homosexuality tells me that the Torah prohibits anal intercourse between men - no more and no less.
Homosexuality is no prohibition on loving another man, kissing him, sleeping with him or cooking breakfast for him Not in public, at any rate. The only feeling that is prohibited homosexuality the one you have mayer your neighbor's wife or donkey or Mazda MX-5 Hojosexuality. He also tells me that the idea of "homosexuals" as a class of people is a recent invention. And thus not discussed in any code of law until very very recently. Is my rabbi wrong?
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Conversion therapy is not the only halakhic approach. Gavriel Fagin, a conversion therapist, spoke to parents. The YU community should reject the attitudes of the roshei yeshiva if they advocate for illegal practices, and we must work to create a culture in which Orthodox Jewish children do not feel stigmatized to change their sexual orientation.
It has been many years since the Torah Declaration was issued, and I do not mean to ascribe attitudes to the roshei yeshiva in question that they no longer hold. Still, if that is the case, they should remove the divrei torah that are posted online in their name that advocate for the encouragement of conversion therapy for LGBT individuals. The link given in the article is now to an archived version of the webpage. Photo Caption: A man protesting gay reparative therapy.
Photo Credit: Flickr. By: Jacob Stone Opinions. Share on Facebook Share. Share on Twitter Tweet. It is for this reason that we are deeply concerned with the message the recent public forum on homosexuality in Orthodoxy sends to the rest of the world.
There certainly is a need to address this important issue; however, it must be addressed with privacy, discretion, and care. A public display of support for individuals who have chosen to openly identify themselves by their alternative lifestyle and desires indicates an implicit, if not explicit, acceptance and approval of a lifestyle that goes against the ideals of the Torah.
While trying to be sensitive to the needs of these individuals, the event showed insensitivity to the values we stand for and live our lives by. We, the Talmidei HaYeshiva , express our profound disappointment and embarrassment for the regrettable message that was sent and the Chillul HaShem that was caused. It upsets me that this view continues to be held in some parts of the Jewish world.
Having a discussion does not mean overruling Leviticus Trying to force conversations into secret rooms, or trying to silence them at all, is anti-Jewish. Why should Leviticus be any different? I hope that the conversation continues at YU and in the Orthodox community. Yasher koach to those individuals who participated in the panel. PS The R. Twersky transcript really depressed the heck out of me. T, thanks for the video link. She called for understanding and respect for a struggle that people suffer from , while not condoning homosexual activity, which is against the Torah, and ultimately against the will of Hashem.
As a Jew suffering through this very struggle, the author of the original article that was released in Kol hamevaser last year, i felt nothing but respect for Chana and what she said. She is a well thought out and respectful person, and from the communication we have had, i know that she has had nothing but praise and support for my own struggles while still respecting any decisions i may or may not do , even though she has her own perspective guided by halacha which does guide my life as well.
It is a deep hope that everyone in the Jewish community could be as supportive to struggling Jews as Chana has been for myself and my struggle. Unfortunately it is not her opposition to homosexual activity which is the problem, it is the people who look at ALL gay Jews, no matter what they do, as evil and terrible people, simply because Hashem gave them a difficult, no a horrible and painful, challenge.
It is they who ultimately cause teens to be fearful-fearful that they will be thrown from there homes and communities, ostracized for something they had no control of. Also, just to be clear, Chana was the editor of The Observer, the stern newspaper, not the commentator , which is the YU paper. Also, Dr. Pelcovitz is a prof. Ive been profiled by the commentator.. Predictably, the hats at the top are holding their ground.
There are two ways to change that and we all know them… threatening funding, or start firing. For now, homophobia in black stays and thats a real shame.
The good news is that the students are aware of the issue and are talking about it. Back when I was there, no such forum happened. But then again, my friends were ok with just about everything, so I felt comfortable. Change is happening, and it might happen in our lifetime.
PS: In regards to the particular Rabbi that called the gathering a chilul hashem… frankly, his words are a chilul hashem and as a leader, he should be ashamed of himself and his pathetic views.
I am embarrassed for him, and for the YU community for continuing his tenure especially now that he has made his views public not only to the world of Orthodox Jews, but to the world at large. Very astute, BZ. I hope it is intentional, if only because the world would be just a tad funnier if it was. If you take it literally you may take stock in things that no longer apply due to the changes in our situation.
Unfortunately, I can see this right-wing trend easily spreading because there was an Israeli in the Knesset who claimed that homosexuality causes earthquakes. Hopefully homophobia likes this never again goes beyond petitions against the homosexual lifestyle.
But, in my opinion, the Christian community is even worse.